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Post by ieatfood7 on Mar 17, 2014 16:07:19 GMT
Note sure if this should go in MTG discussion or here.
So I recently saw a blog entry of a guy who was playing at GP Richmond, and seeing a lot of people who didn't like pulling up their pants, he took pictures of himself and others posing behind the unsuspecting semi-mooners.
At the time I thought it funny, clever criticism, and gratifying that the magic community could laugh at itself and was getting media attention.
I soon found that this was a controversy, with a lot of people having their feelings hurt, feeling harassed, exposed, victimized, mocked, etc. The most commonly used word was "bullying."
I still feel like it was innocent fun, but I can see where people would have legitimate reasons to be hurt. (Wizards did a temporary ban on the person as punishment).
What do you all think?
IMPORTANT! BE NICE! If you want to attack the people who are hurt as wimps, or if you want to attack the people who find it funny as evil, GO AWAY THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR YOU.
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Post by fustydavorite on Mar 17, 2014 16:13:24 GMT
In all reality they should just pull up their pants lol
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Post by DrEggman on Mar 17, 2014 16:18:24 GMT
Well, from what I saw, he never actually made fun of anyone, he simply had his picture taken with them in the background. While I understand that it might have hurt their feelings, they went into a place where photography is allowed looking as they did. He made no commentary on them. It's not his fault that they didn't have their pants up all the way.
Honestly, I think it was wrong for WotC to ban him. Pictures are allowed, and their collective cracks were visible.
I thought it was funny.
While I can't remember the pictures exactly, did any of them show faces?
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Post by ieatfood7 on Mar 17, 2014 16:37:47 GMT
Well, from what I saw, he never actually made fun of anyone, he simply had his picture taken with them in the background. While I understand that it might have hurt their feelings, they went into a place where photography is allowed looking as they did. He made no commentary on them. It's not his fault that they didn't have their pants up all the way. Honestly, I think it was wrong for WotC to ban him. Pictures are allowed, and their collective cracks were visible. I thought it was funny. While I can't remember the pictures exactly, did any of them show faces? They did not show the face of any of the "targets." It is said that face or not shouldn't matter, as anyone can easily recognize them self in that setting, and their friends may as well. I would say I agree that face would be worse, but shouldn't be the deciding factor on acceptable/unacceptable. Covering up the faces before secretly posting very lewd, secret, private pictures shouldn't make that type of extreme action, ok, and I suggest that while this is much less of an offense in the first place, the face/no face isn't the bright line for acceptable. Debate rages on the interweb on this topic. (I am phrasing that and most of this as neutral as I can...like I said, I'm not strongly of either opinion.) |
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Post by DrEggman on Mar 17, 2014 17:33:58 GMT
It isn't the deciding factor, but it shows that he wasn't making fun of any particular individuals, but rather the MTG community as a whole, which he is a part of.
I assume your reference to lewd images is about images of a pornographic nature, but that's a different level.
What if a bunch of guys went streaking at a football game and complained to the NFL if pictures of it showed up on the net? They knowingly went to a public event where photography is commonplace, looking the way they do. If they thought that was an acceptable way to appear, they have no reason to complain.
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Post by cbstrad on Mar 17, 2014 17:35:46 GMT
I'm with Fusty. The whole sagged-pants thing is 1) old and 2) stupid as hell. It doesn't look "street" or "gangsta." It looks juvenile.
It's one of many pop culture phenomena that need to die
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Post by DrEggman on Mar 17, 2014 17:41:37 GMT
I think that in this case, the crack showing isn't intentional to look "gangsta"... I think it's just overweight people wearing pants and shirts that don't fit properly.
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Post by ieatfood7 on Mar 17, 2014 17:51:20 GMT
I think that streakers are giving specific permission/encouragement for people to photograph them, while these people probably were not looking for attention...and judging from the pictures it is not "saggy pants" so much as "overweight and not mindful of their belts"
I am only devil's advocate here. I still generally think it's not so bad.
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Post by DrEggman on Mar 17, 2014 17:59:08 GMT
But the essence is still the same. They chose to wear clothing that made their nether regions show. He didn't take pictures of anything that they weren't showing 4300 other people.
I have a naive hope that maybe this will cause the MTG community to start minding how they look/smell. Even at events at my LGS, it can be unpleasant.
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Post by ieatfood7 on Mar 17, 2014 18:12:39 GMT
Here is another way to look at the issue, and is a factual occurrence (according to the internet).
Someone took pictures of attendants at a convention (I think it was a mtg event, pro tour or something) with their permission, they were posing, etc. Then he posted them with VERY derogatory comments online. Is that ok, taking pictures at an event with the understanding that you are being respectful, and then using them for mockery later?
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Post by abstractapathist on Mar 17, 2014 19:35:01 GMT
In my opinion, it's never okay to take and post a picture of someone or their body without their permission, and this was no exception.
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Post by ieatfood7 on Mar 17, 2014 19:46:27 GMT
Using the word "never" makes it a very strong stance. Do you disprove of memes? Ignoring those of famous people/advertisements (thats a different story, both legally and ethically), I doubt many of those meme targets agreed to their depiction (some of which are kinder than others).
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Post by abstractapathist on Mar 17, 2014 21:22:44 GMT
Using the word "never" makes it a very strong stance. Do you disprove of memes? Ignoring those of famous people/advertisements (thats a different story, both legally and ethically), I doubt many of those meme targets agreed to their depiction (some of which are kinder than others). I think there's a difference between using an image already in the public domain of the internet (or on a magazine, etc.) and putting it there. |
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Post by ieatfood7 on Mar 17, 2014 21:30:38 GMT
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Post by abstractapathist on Mar 17, 2014 23:04:27 GMT
If the person pictured in the meme put it up there, they took their chances, for better or for worse (the internet does that), but if it was a picture they did not agree to have put on the internet or released publicly in any fashion, then whoever did put it up there is at fault. I'm not saying it's okay to make fun of people necessarily, but that it will happen regardless. You can't hold all of 4-chan at fault for making memes which cast bad light on those pictured, but if that picture shouldn't have been public, you can certainly hold the person who made it so accountable. |
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Post by DrEggman on Mar 18, 2014 0:44:29 GMT
Legally, and in my opinion morally, any time you appear in a public place, you agree to be potentially in photographs. Take the guy in the background of the Abbey Road cover. He didn't even know who the Beatles were or know he was on arguably the most famous album cover of all time or like twenty years, but as he was on a public street, he "gave his permission."
Now, in businesses, it's different. It is up to the owner of the establishment to determine whether photographs of their patrons are permitted. Most choose to not allow this outside of their own purposes.
At an event like an MTG tourney, WotC does allow this, as people want to take pictures of the event they are participating in. Usually, in cases such as this or concerts, etc., purchase of a ticket or registering for the event is taken as consent to have your pictures taken. Most places have some kind of "terms and conditions" type thing where either you must agree or they post it in an easily viewable place, such as the entrance, or on the ticket/paperwork.
I'm an amateur photographer and was sued by an individual because I took photographs of a downtown street for the city website and a person was inadvertently in a couple of the shots, albeit at a distance of a block or so, and therefore almost unrecognizable. So I read a decent amount about this.
All that being said, I don't necessarily agree with what he did, but it was within the confines of the law and in my opinion not exactly wrong or immoral. Just like I don't think burning your country's flag is okay, but I do think it should be legal.
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papabudz
New Member
Spark it. Puff it. Pass it. Ease your pain in all its forms and fashions.
Posts: 40 
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Post by papabudz on Mar 18, 2014 5:13:02 GMT
I love the title leatfood. Who doesn't at least giggle at buttcrack? Especially if it's their own. I say this a lot, but people just need to relax.
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Post by DrEggman on Mar 18, 2014 5:29:27 GMT
A guy was banned for 18 months from either competing or organizing tourneys at his LGS (he was a TO). Worth at least discussing the merit of his punishment, I think. Nobody is angry, so no "calming down" necessary... We're all happy happy joy joy up in here  |
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Post by Gorzo on Mar 18, 2014 9:24:43 GMT
They banned the guy? That seems like a bit of an overreaction.
I can see both sides of this one for sure. I saw the pictures, and sure, they were kinda funny. He was as goofy looking himself as anyone he took a buttcrack picture of (that look on his face). But as an overweight guy myself (I'll admit it), I can be pretty self-conscious and I'd be incredibly humiliated if I found myself featured in something like this. On the other hand, I know I wouldn't, because I make sure to take care of myself - I shower, I wear a belt, and I am typically aware of when my ass is hanging out and make sure that doesn't happen.
So...I guess what I'm saying is I agree that his act of taking and posting these pictures was inappropriate and I can see why feelings were hurt of those involved. But I don't think the punishment fits the crime. Honestly an apology from the picture-taker and a "Hey, don't do that again" from WotC sounds more fitting to me.
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Post by ieatfood7 on Mar 18, 2014 13:33:11 GMT
They banned the guy? That seems like a bit of an overreaction. I can see both sides of this one for sure. I saw the pictures, and sure, they were kinda funny. He was as goofy looking himself as anyone he took a buttcrack picture of (that look on his face). But as an overweight guy myself (I'll admit it), I can be pretty self-conscious and I'd be incredibly humiliated if I found myself featured in something like this. On the other hand, I know I wouldn't, because I make sure to take care of myself - I shower, I wear a belt, and I am typically aware of when my ass is hanging out and make sure that doesn't happen. So...I guess what I'm saying is I agree that his act of taking and posting these pictures was inappropriate and I can see why feelings were hurt of those involved. But I don't think the punishment fits the crime. Honestly an apology from the picture-taker and a "Hey, don't do that again" from WotC sounds more fitting to me. I generally agree with you. I can see some wisdom in Wizard's actions though....they want, both from a financial /PR standpoint and from a caring community standpoint (cough cough unlike cough piotr cough), to make sure that magic events are "safe spaces" where people can feel free to show parts of themselves they might not in other contaxts (I swear i'm talking about letting your dork flag fly, not about mooning, but I can't think of a better way to word it), without being judged. Now I think failing to pull you pants up is something where friendly ridicule is ok, but someon would say ebing a magic fanboy is worthy of ridicule (I obviously don't feel this way, but I also don't feel comfortable showing the extent of my dorky fandom in all arenas of my life). If I was at a friend's St. Patricks day party, and he took a picture of me passed out drunk and posted it online, I would feel like the trust I put in him, that this was a safe, private place for me to let my guard down, had been violated (I know this happens a lot, may or may not be illegal, and I would take it in stride, but I would be upset and would not trust him as much in the future). I understand Wizards wanting us (and the parents of young players) to trust them and their events. |
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Post by think on Aug 29, 2018 7:50:02 GMT
i personally think they were wrong to ban him or for there to be any controversy at all.
people need to understand that if you are in public you need to be taking care of your self and mindful of your appearance. Magic players are known to have this problem, poor hygiene and health- mentally and physically. overweight and not focused on how other people perceive them. I have stopped going to places because i was tired of smelling peoples breath ass and arm pits literally three feet away across the table or hanging around a bunch of scuffed bums who dont wash their cloths or wear cloths that fit. this is an actual thing. if someone exposes that in the way it was its not bad. its good. 1000% good for the community. put a mirror in front of one of these people and ask them when they last saw their body in a mirror or whens the last time they got dressed and really looked at them selves. they are depressed and unhealthy and would rather buy more cards then invest some in cloths that fit and their health. fat shaming isn't bullying. you don't tell people they should be happy with a disease they can fix. you just treat it for what it is. a health problem.
This really gets to me because they banned travis woo for bs reasons when he was the one doing the most for a lot of the lost young or unhealthy members of the community. he promoted a healthy mind and body and a mindset to help people get ahead. magic needs that. there are the very smart well put together players and then there is everyone else and in magic everyone else makes up the much larger percentage.
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